John Lavery speaks to BBC Radio Ulster
BBC Radio Ulster | Evening Extra | 1 May 2026
Following a BBC North West investigation that found a catfish species being sold in the region's fish and chip shops without customers being fully aware of what they were buying, Claire Graham from BBC Radio Ulster spoke with Fish City owner and Northern Ireland Regional Director of the National Federation of Fish Friers John Lavery on his thoughts on the investigation. Read below for a transcription of the interview.
Claire Graham: From marathons to takeaways, we’re all paying more for a meal out. And it’s no different for getting a takeaway on the weekend, even you will have noticed. And businesses have had no choice but to pay some of the extra costs they’re facing and pass extra costs on to consumers.
How would you feel, okay, it’s Friday night, you’ve ordered a fish supper, you’ve been looking forward to it all week, you’ve got your curry sauce or your gravy or whatever it is, extra salt and vinegar, and you find out that instead of the cod or the haddock that you were expecting, you’ve been served catfish in batter instead?
A BBC North West investigation has been looking at just that issue; it found that some rogue chip shops have been doing just that to cut down on their costs. John Lavery is the Northern Ireland regional director at the National Federation of Fish Friers and owner of Fish City in Belfast. I spoke to him earlier and began by asking him what he made of the BBC investigation.
John Lavery: It is concerning because it damages the industry and the reputation of the industry of the whole, however from what I can see, there was a relatively small number of operators doing that. We suspect that there are more. Fish as in cod and haddock are at record prices at the moment and forecast to get even higher. The cost of your fish supper now in order to make any profit and cover overheads is hugely expensive.
Claire: Well, you’ve hit the nail on the head on that one, John, haven’t you, for the reasons why chip shops have been doing this, and it comes down to costs, they say. And I’m wondering if you could set out: What is the cost difference between using the likes of a catfish and using a cod in real terms? What’s the money involved in that?
John: We haven’t used catfish ourselves, but from what I can see and in media reports et cetera, it’s making somewhere around £3.85 a kilo, as opposed to cod, and in Northern Ireland, our cod prices would be certainly more expensive than in say England and Scotland because of transport costs and Brexit et cetera, et etcetera, so our cod prices I’ve heard as much as £18-£19 a kilo. So a very substantial difference between the catfish and cod, and they said cod is expected to rise even further, as will haddock. So the industry has recognised that there is a cost-of-living crisis, everybody’s under pressure, and to be able to provide an affordable meal, the industry is going to have to look at alternative species.
Claire: For a fish supper, if we’re talking about businesses trying to make profit for a fish supper, what are the good alternative species that even as a customer could out for, that would be just as nice? For lots of people, John, a fish supper is more than just the fish itself, it’s about the batter, it’s about the crispiness of the chips, it’s about the whole fish supper experience, so presumably, you sell alternative species, but what do you think will emerge as the market leader as opposed to just cod or haddock if they are so expensive?
John: It’s within my interest and any fish and chip business to find the best quality of a species available, otherwise my business won’t survive. Some current alternatives that are out there are Alaskan pollock, hake, saithe, tilapia, and there’s some operators using Pangasius, but there’s also hoki, there’s a huge variety of different species. Like ourselves, we do provide alternative species, but we still got cod on the menu, so if someone wishes to have cod, that traditional offering, it’s there, but unfortunately, it’s going to be more expensive than it used to be.
Claire: Now, you’re obviously very transparent with your customers, John, and I’m sure many of your colleagues across Northern Ireland would be as well about ‘If you’re not buying cod, this is what it is; here’s what your other options are.’ If you’re a customer and you’re going to a chippy and you suspect the fish you have been given isn’t what you’ve ordered in these cases we’ve seen in this investigation, what would you say to a customer to look out for if they do suspect that what’s been advertised isn’t what has appeared in their wrappers or in their box?
John: Well, I suppose the first indicator would be what price is being paid, then really, if you ask the operator what fish and you’re being told something, it would be difficult to prove on the site. Really, you vote with your feet. If the food that’s being served isn’t of a particular quality, then you’re hardly likely to go back. However, if a member of the public felt that strong about it, they certainly could approach Food Standards, they could have the food analysed themselves and a DNA test done, and that would establish what species was served. The fish and chip industry and operators, they’re independent operators, they rely on the trust from their customers, they’re community-based, and most, and certainly the good operators, would understand and know that to lose that trust would be so damaging to their business that you would have to ask, ‘Why take the risk?’
Claire: And just finally, John, just before you go, if anyone’s making any decisions on the way home listening to this in the car about what they should be getting for their tea, what would you recommend?
John: There’s a variety of beautiful fish out there, and a fish supper is as good on a sunny, barmy day as it is on a dull, cold, miserable one.
Clare: A 365 dinner, says John Lavery, the Northern Ireland Regional Director of the National Federation of Fish Friers, and, of course, the owner of Fish City in Belfast, giving his thoughts on that BBC investigation in the north west of England that rogue chip shops have been catfishing their customers by serving catfish in batter instead of cod or haddock. And get your thoughts in to us on that 81771. It is expensive to get a chippy, but some good tips in there from John about how to still enjoy it on a weekend as a wee treat without having to worry about what species is inside of the wrapper. Thanks, John, for speaking to us there.
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002vn8b (19:18–26:08)